Feature Based Cost Estimating for Machine Shops

Taking a trip around the net you might find a few of the machine shop job costing and estimating software applications out there touting there application as "FEATURE BASED" estimating. My first reaction is always ... REALLY ??? Does anyone really fall for that sales gobbly-gook speak ???

What else would you want to estimate ... THE NON FEATURES ?????

With further thought it becomes abundantly apparent that it simply sounds good ... makes for a good sales pitch ... catches the eye ... but the reality is ... don't be fooled. As a professional think about it. If you have a part with a variety of "features" that need to be machined ... the simple act of estimating the time to machine those features ... WHICH IS REALLY ALL THE ESTIMATE IS BEING CREATED FOR ... is the act of feature based estimating. THERE ISN'T ANY OTHER TYPE !!!

AND ... if you are touting feature based estimating you better be able to handle ALL kinds of features ... not only simplistic milling and turning of simplistic parts. Real world workpieces have odd shaped pockets and contours ... odd shaped turned parts with various types of grooves and undercuts. Simplistic "feature based" estimating app's simply don't handle the "real world" well.

Take a look at "feature based" estimating on STEROIDS in our KipwareCYC® - CUT LENGTH CALCULATOR video ... the link is below :

For additional information on the complete KipwareCYC® - Machining CycleTime Estimating Software application ... CLICK HERE.

AND ... for complete information on turning that cycletime estimate into a complete COST ESTIMATE and QUOTATION ... check out KipwareQTE® ... CLICK HERE.

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.

DUMP the "wizards" ...

STOP being held back ...

GO PRO ...

BE A PRO ...

with Kipware®

Guidelines for Calculating Machining Hourly Rate

We tout this fact all the time in our marketing ... at Kentech Inc. we are MACHINISTS ... we cut chips, we programmed, we ran shop floors for years ... then we became software engineers and designers and built software products we saw were lacking during those years. What we refer to as Real World Machine Shop Software. 

As a result, many of our clients come to us to take advantage of that experience ... especially those just starting out. Since quoting and estimating is one of the first tasks a new shop needs to get right ... we get asked quite a lot of questions about these areas. Our KipwareCYC® ( machining cycletime estimating software ) and KipwareQTE® ( cost estimating / quoting software ) titles are two of our most popular titles. One of the "hot" topics we encounter during online presentations of these titles is often concerning the cost to charge for a machining or a shop rate. So we thought it was a good time to add a blog post with some guidelines we feel are simple enough ... but important enough ... that can get you to an accurate figure.

Since many shops will utilize an hourly rate as a basis for charging for machining time, this post is dedicated to some helpful guidelines on how to calculate that machining hourly rate. Below are some points we consider important when calculating the hourly rate for a particular machine. The areas requiring calculations include :

Equipment – Cost Per Hour of Operation ... a common formula :
(machine purchase cost + expected lifetime maintenance cost) / expected hours of operating life.

Direct Labor Cost per Hour ... a common formula :
(total annual labor costs + taxes + benefits + paid time off) / (total annual hours worked – breaks and training time)

Overhead Cost Per Hour  :
Any costs not directly involved in machining a part is overhead. These include costs for administrative staff salary, equipment, furniture, building lease, maintenance and office supplies. Calculate the annual costs of these, then divide by total labor or machine hours for the year. This will be your overhead cost per hour

Once the above costs are calculated … you can use the formulas and guidelines below to arrive at either a
“general” shop hourly rate or an hourly rate based on a specific piece of equipment.

General Machine Shop Hourly Rate ... a common formula :
Average overall shop rate = (average machine cost per hour + labor and overhead cost per hour) x markup

Machine Specific Hourly Rate ... a common formula :
(specific machine(s) cost per hour + labor + overhead cost per hour) x markup

Somewhat simplified ... and usually a work in progress as factors may change. It is important to gather all the figures in the formulas above as best you can ... as accurate as you can ... and to keep tabs on any factors that may change along the way.

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.

You can check our all our Real World Machine Shop Software at our website :

www.KentechInc.com

Improved Machining Speed and Feed Wizard Integration Released

With the recent release of our KipwareCSF® - Machining Speed and Feed Wizard for Kipware® Conversational ... Kentech Inc. has begun the journey to allow users to build speed and feed databases whose information can easily be integrated into Kipware® conversational CNC programming software.

With our newest feature release ... KipwareCSF® also now gives our KipwareCYC® - Machining Cycletime Estimating Software users the power to import their cutting parameter database built in KipwareCYC® into KipwareCSF® and therefore into Kipware® conversational.

What does it all mean?
It means that cutting parameters utilized in KipwareCYC® to calculate machining cycletime ... can now be imported and used directly in Kipware® conversational when creating the G code programs to meet those estimates. This means that our core principal for accurate machining cycletime estimating is now even more enhanced ... the cutting parameters used when estimating will now be used directly in the machining G code programs.

Now that we have a basis for speed and feed calculations and integration with the release of KipwareCSF® ... we will continue to grow that app and add additional features ... calculations ... and power. In addition ... the role of KipwareCYC® and Kipware® conversational will continue to grow and intertwine.

If you are not on-board as a Kipware® user ... we invite you to invest some of your valuable time exploring our various Kipware® titles. For thousands of real world machine shops around the world ...  their explorations of Kipware® has been time well spent.

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.

Our View on Using G Code Programs to Estimate Cycletime

Oftentimes when we are demonstrating our KipwareCYC® - Machining Cycletime Estimating Software to clients and ask : "How do you currently estimate cycletime?" ... the answer we often receive is "I create a G code program and then get the run time from that.

Having lived and worked on the shop floor for over 25+ years ... this answer blows us away. But we do understand why they're looking for a better cycletime estimating solution.

Our belief has always been that it's a fine line between obtaining an accurate machining cycletime for an estimate ... and going over the line with both overkill and investing a tremendous amount of time in something that may never lead to results. Creating a G code program ... even though a CAD/CAM package ... and then obtaining a run time off of that G code program is DEFINITELY overkill ... which is why they are seeking a better solution.

Using a G code program for cycletime is a good alternative if you have a job that is currently running or has run on your shop floor and you want to know the cycletime. But for estimating ... we disagree strongly.

KipwareCYC® was designed after years spent creating machine justifications for clients looking to purchase new CNC equipment. Clients wanted to know an accurate run time for their parts on the equipment we were proposing to sell them for production. So ..... if the client decided our machine was it ... that cycletime better be correct.

KipwareCYC® was designed to utilize a perfect blend of time, effort, user input and application calculated data. BUT ... I don't want to go on and on here telling you the how's and why's. Instead ... if you are in the market for a quality cycletime estimating solution ... log on http://www.kentechinc.com/livedemo.shtml. There you can request a date and time that is convenient to attend a live, online demonstration and let us show you how KipwareCYC® can create accurate cycletime estimates for your quotes ... with a minimum of effort.

Let's get that bottom line growing in the coming New Year.
Wishing All a Happy and Prosperous New Year !!

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.

Live Webinar on Machine Shop Estimating with Kipware®

We would love to invite you to join us for a live Webinar demonstration of quoting and estimating with KipwareCYC® machining cycletime estimating software and KipwareQTE® job costing and estimating software ... this Thursday 10/10/2013 at 1:30 pm ET. Our webinars usually last between 20 and 30 minutes with Q&A session to follow.

Also ... our Kipware® business software titles are featured in our Stupid Deal of the Week this week. So come and join us ... get the scoop on quoting and estimating with Kipware® ... get all your questions answered in real time ... and if it feels right, save some serious $$$ with a Stupid Deal of the Week purchase of an individual Kipware® title or all our business titles in our Kipware® Suite bundle.

You can Register Here : http://www.kentechinc.com/webinar_registration.html

The webinar capacity is limited to 25 ... so don't miss out ... register early.

Thanks to all in advance ... hope to see ya Thursday !!

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.

New Release - CLC SketchPad for KipwareCYC® - Cycletime Estimating Software

We are pleased to announce another NEW release for Kipware® ... this one is for our KipwareCYC® - Machining CycleTime Estimating Software.

One of the inputs required when estimating machining cycletime ... is what is referred to as "length of cut". The distance the tool will travel while in the cut. Onviously, this is required along with the cutting feedrate to determine the time it takes the tool to remove the material.

KipwareCYC® has always included an application we call the Cut Length Calculator or CLC. CLC uses a variety of conversational, fill-in-the-blank forms for standard type operations ... pocket milling, drilling, turning, grooving, threading, etc. ... which allow the user to determine length of cut by simply describing the operation. Simple inputs like depth of cut, length and width, diameters, tool diameters, etc. are entered and CLC will auto-calculate the length of cut.

This has always worked well for standard type operations ... but non-standard type operations ... contouring, part profiling, etc. ... still contained a bit of guesstimating to determine the length of cut. It's a fine line between getting the information you require ... and overkill. But we think that we have created a great solution that is accurate ... fast ... and easy-to-use. The CLC SketchPad.

We have taken our proven-in-the-trenches SketchPad from our Kipware® conversational software ... with the patent-pending Machinist Mode ... and adapted it for use in determining length of cut. Basically ... users can import a DXF file ... select a graphical tool representation from the user defined Tool Library ... and then simply move the tool ( mouse ) around the part creating a toolpath they envision would be used for that machining operation. CLC SketchPad will record all the positions automatically and will then auto-calculate the length of cut. Results will be displayed ... and can then be copied to the clipboard and pasted into the KipwareCYC® form in the appropriate field.

You can view a complete presentation video on our YouTube Channel ( KTSoftware ) ... by clicking the link below.

If you are not a KipwareCYC® user ... does your estimating software provide you with a field for length of cut ... or with innovative and accurate tools to assist in it's calculation?

If you are a current KipwareCYC® user ... UPGRADING to the NEW CLC with the CLC SketchPad will add new accuracy and improve your cycletime estimating. Upgrade pricing can be found here ... in the Kentech Inc. OnLine Store.

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.

Accurate Machining CycleTime Estimating - The Key

No matter what system you utilize to create your cost estimates and quotes ... everything starts with an accurate machining cycletime estimate. The phrase ... "Oh, that should take about two and a half minutes to machine." ... is doing more harm to your bottom line than you are probably even aware. This type of guesstimating ... especially when it comes to machining cycletime ... is throwing the whole cost estimating process that comes down the line into question.

If the machining cycletime estimate is not correct ... you could be winning work ... but unprofitable work. And that's just what your shop doesn't need ... wasting time manufacturing parts that are losing you money. Taking machine time and employee energy away profitable work.

So what is the KEY to accurate cycletime estimating?

Having lived and "grown up" on the shop floor ... we realize that the MAIN KEY to accurate cycletime estimating is to utilize the cutting conditions and parameters that can actually be reproduced on your shop floor ... with your equipment.

It doesn't do any good to estimate using an RPM or SFM and feedrate that your shop floor can never duplicate ... or utilize a method of machining that your shop floor would never follow or duplicate.

Sure cycletime estimating software that has feature recognition and auto-determines the method of machining will get you a time quickly and get that estimate done quickly ... but what good is it if your shop floor would never machine the part using the method the software determined?

Cycletime estimating software that boasts thousands of materials and speeds and feeds is expensive and seems powerful and complete ... but if your shop floor can't duplicate that "book knowledge" speeds and feeds ... what good is it?

So Kentech's KipwareCYC® software is different? How?

It certainly is ... and I'm glad you asked.

First : 
KipwareCYC® is a database driven application ... utilizing a user-defined database for machine specifications ( max RPM, rapid rates, tool change time, etc. ) and user-defined cutting parameters ( speeds, feeds for various materials and machining operations ). This insures that the calculated times accurately reflect what happens on your shop floor ... the key to accurate cycleltime estimating. You create the database and input YOUR specifications and cutting parameters.

Second : 
Using the various outputs and travelers available from KipwareCYC® ... the more you use the software, the more accurate it becomes. For example : the Routing Sheet that is automatically created from KipwareCYC® provides the operator / set-up personnel with a complete list of cutting parameters and times for each operation as the part moves through the shop. This means he has a targeted RPM, feedrate and time for each operation. If any of those factors cannot be achieved ... a report back to the estimate creator will result in an adjustment to the database information ... perhaps a revision to the SFM or feedrate or chip load used for a specific machining operation. Next time ... the RPM and feedrate will be more accurate. So the more you use the software ... the more accurate it becomes.

Ugh ... Entering ALL that database information !!!
Actually ... a couple of points that may have crossed your mind. First ... we do ship KipwareCYC® with installed database information for common machines, materials and cutting parameters. But again ... this is just to get you started ... you really need to make the database information your own. Here is what we recommend.

Let's say today you receive an RFQ for a 316 stainless part that requires some turning. You gather the machine specs for the lathe you're going to use and grab the normal cutting parameters the shop uses for 316 stainless. One additional point here ... most shops use a common insert that works well for them for specific machining operations ... there really isn't a need for a dramatic, all encompassing speeds and feeds database with info you'll probably never use ... let's keep it simple and keep it real. So you enter that data and now ... 316 stainless is done !! Next time you get an RFQ the info is all there and ready to go. With this system ... you are building the database as you are preparing quotes and winning work !!! It's a win -win ... with long term benefits.

So ... the moral of the story is?
No matter how you are arriving at your machining cycletime estimate ... the one certainty is to insure that it is utilizing the cutting conditions and parameters that can actually be reproduced on your shop floor ... with your equipment.

If you are looking for a software application what will insure that key ... we invite you to check out our KipwareCYC - Machining CycleTime Estimating software HERE.

Kenney Skonieczny - President

Kentech Inc.

Real World Machining Cycletime Estimating & Why It Matters

The phrase ... the guess ... "That should take us about 2 minutes to machine." ... is costing you  money ... plain and simple.

I would say that most of our clients who request a Webex demonstration of our KipwareCYC® software answer the question "So how do you estimate your cycletime currently?" in a similar fashion. Inevitably most pass it on to the machinist on the floor or the production manager or the manufacturing engineer ... and they provide the machining time estimate. And when we push a little harder ... it turns out that most usually use the scientific form of GUESSTIMATING to arrive at their times based on their 30+ years or so of machining.

The fact of the matter is that even with all that machining background ... their cycletime estimate is still a guesstimate ... and cost estimates produced from that will be incorrect. No matter what you are using for cost estimating ... if the cycletime estimate is incorrect it could lead to winning work ... but work that just loses money.

The other side of the coin is the "feature recognition" software that claim they can produce a cycletime estimate based on a solid model. So now we go from a free guess to a very high priced software application ... but the result is probably the same ... inaccurate times. Why? That high priced app probably can figure a machining cycletime estimate based on that 3D model ... but the key is will the machining process it determines be the same process that will take place on your shop floor? Will the speeds and feeds it calculates be the same speeds and feeds that will be produced on your shop floor? Probably not ... and that means the time it calculated is no better than a guesstimate.

The key to accurate cycletime estimating is simple ... make certain that the machine specs, cutting process and parameters used accurately reflect what will happen on your shop floor. Period.

Our KipwareCYC® is real world cycletime estimating software that was developed in the real world over years of providing time estimates for machine justification and time estimates for high volume production. KipwareCYC® will provide you with consistency ... and most important accuracy ... in your cycletime estimating process. The real world design and features of KipwareCYC® will insure that machine specs and cutting parameters utilized in the estimate will accurately reflect what happens on your shop floor. In fact ... the design insures that the more you use KipwareCYC® ... the more accurate it becomes !!!

Want to learn more ... we invite you to visit www.KentechInc.com or www.MachineShopSoftware.com and explore KipwareCYC® in more detail.

Better yet ... why not arrange for a personal online demonstration and let us show you how we can back up our claims ... click here to set one up.

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.

"That should take us about 2 minutes ... "

"That should take us about 2 minutes to machine." ... Is that how your machining cycletime estimating process goes? If so ... you are losing money ... plain and simple.

I would say that most of our clients who request a Webex demonstration of our KipwareCYC® software answer the question "So how do you estimate your cycletime currently?" in a similar fashion. Inevitably most pass it on to the machinist on the floor or the production manager or the manufacturing engineer ... and they provide the machining time estimate. And when we push a little harder ... it turns out that most usually use the scientific form of GUESSTIMATING to arrive at their times based on their 30+ years or so of machining.

The fact of the matter is that even with all that machining background ... their cycletime estimate is still a guesstimate ... and cost estimates produced from that will be incorrect. No matter what you are using for cost estimating ... if the cycletime estimate is incorrect it could lead to winning work ... but work that just loses money.

The other side of the coin is the "feature recognition" software that claim they can produce a cycletime estimate based on a solid model. So now we go from a free guess to a very high priced software application ... but the result is probably the same ... inaccurate times. Why? That high priced app probably can figure a machining cycletime estimate based on that 3D model ... but the key is will the machining process it determines be the same process that will take place on your shop floor? Will the speeds and feeds it calculates be the same speeds and feeds that will be produced on your shop floor? Probably not ... and that means the time it calculated is no better than a guesstimate.

The key to accurate cycletime estimating is simple ... make certain that the machine specs, cutting process and parameters used accurately reflect what will happen on your shop floor. Period.

KipwareCYC® is real world cycletime estimating software that was developed in the real world over years of providing time estimates for machine justification and time estimates for high volume production. KipwareCYC® will provide you with consistency ... and most important accuracy ... in your cycletime estimating process. The real world design and features of KipwareCYC® will insure that machine specs and cutting parameters utilized in the estimate will accurately reflect what happens on your shop floor. In fact ... the design insures that the more you use KipwareCYC® ... the more accurate it becomes !!!

Want to learn more ... we invite you to visit www.KentechInc.com or www.MachineShopSoftware.com and explore KipwareCYC® in more detail.

Better yet ... why not arrange for a personal online demonstration and let us show you how we can back up our claims ... click here to set one up.

Kenney Skonieczny - President
Kentech Inc.